Attaching to God: Neuroscience-informed Spiritual Formation

081: From Therapy, to Trauma, to Attaching to Immanuel (God With Us) with Stephanie Rossing

November 28, 2023 Season 5 Episode 81
081: From Therapy, to Trauma, to Attaching to Immanuel (God With Us) with Stephanie Rossing
Attaching to God: Neuroscience-informed Spiritual Formation
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Attaching to God: Neuroscience-informed Spiritual Formation
081: From Therapy, to Trauma, to Attaching to Immanuel (God With Us) with Stephanie Rossing
Nov 28, 2023 Season 5 Episode 81

How do we help people get their brains back online? Can the Spirit lead us through a process of healing without triggering re-traumatization? And how can we attach more deeply with God?

Guest Stephanie Rossing (Licenced Marriage and Family Therapist) talks about her own journey as a therapist, discovering and receiving training in trauma treatments (EMDR and Dialectical Behavior Therapy), and how she learned to let the Spirit lead treatment and how Immanuel Prayer helps us attach to God more deeply. 

Also, this Advent, check out our book all about Discovering the God Who Wants to Be With Us.

Stephanie Rossing is a therapist specializing in the healing of trauma. She is also passionate about Immanuel Prayer and using embodied practices to help people strengthen intimacy with God. She longs to help people build emotionally healthy communities that thrive in a secure attachment to self, God and others. 

Stay Connected:

  • NEED spiritual direction or coaching that aligns with this podcast? Connect with Cyd Holsclaw here.
  • Join the Embodied Faith community to stay connected and get posts, episodes, & resources.
  • Support the podcast with a one-time or regular gift (to keep this ad-free without breaking the Holsclaw's bank).
Show Notes Transcript

How do we help people get their brains back online? Can the Spirit lead us through a process of healing without triggering re-traumatization? And how can we attach more deeply with God?

Guest Stephanie Rossing (Licenced Marriage and Family Therapist) talks about her own journey as a therapist, discovering and receiving training in trauma treatments (EMDR and Dialectical Behavior Therapy), and how she learned to let the Spirit lead treatment and how Immanuel Prayer helps us attach to God more deeply. 

Also, this Advent, check out our book all about Discovering the God Who Wants to Be With Us.

Stephanie Rossing is a therapist specializing in the healing of trauma. She is also passionate about Immanuel Prayer and using embodied practices to help people strengthen intimacy with God. She longs to help people build emotionally healthy communities that thrive in a secure attachment to self, God and others. 

Stay Connected:

  • NEED spiritual direction or coaching that aligns with this podcast? Connect with Cyd Holsclaw here.
  • Join the Embodied Faith community to stay connected and get posts, episodes, & resources.
  • Support the podcast with a one-time or regular gift (to keep this ad-free without breaking the Holsclaw's bank).

[00:00:15] Geoff: This is the embodied faith podcast with Geoff and Cyd Holsclaw, where we are exploring a neuroscience informed spiritual formation produced as always by grassroots Christianity, which is growing faith for everyday people. We're really excited to have our guests with us today. Stephanie Rossing. She is a licensed. Marriage and family therapists specializing in the healing of trauma. And she is also very passionate about Emmanuel prayer, which we'll talk about what that is for those of you who don't know, uh, and using embodied practices to help people strengthen intimacy with God. And she really longs to help people build emotionally healthy communities that thrive in a secure attachment with God, with themselves and with others. 

Stephanie, thank you so much for being on with us today. 

[00:01:00] Stephanie Rossing: I am overjoyed to be here with like minded people. Thank you so much,  

[00:01:04] Cyd: Yeah, just hearing that description that he just used to introduce you, I'm like, Oh, we are so sisters. I'm not like, I'm not like the trauma therapist, but still everything else he was saying about the beliefs and the restoration and it's  

[00:01:20] Geoff: Well, Sid, you are like a trauma 

[00:01:21] Cyd: we're on the same page, 

[00:01:23] Geoff: spiritual director and coach. So you guys are all in 

like very similar fields. But yeah, just before 

we pressed play, we were just like, Oh, it's so nice to be connected with other people who, you know, are really like tuned in to the importance of trauma and therapy and healing. 

But then I also have this deep commitment. And expectation and experience that Jesus enters in and heals people. So why don't we hear just a little bit of your story? How did you become like, you know, how was God working or calling for you to become a therapist as well, especially, uh, emphasized or focused on healing, uh, trauma. 

Hmm. Hmm. 

[00:02:02] Stephanie Rossing: part before the trauma therapy. Um, in my twenties, I did some, uh, actually came to Christ at 18 in college. So in my early twenties, um, I did some ministry experiences that allowed me to see my own, uh, struggles and brokenness living in very intimate community, living in a van for a year, um, traveling itinerant ministry. 

So I, you know, got off the road with that kind of an experience and knew that I, I needed some, some counseling, um, felt just that inside stuff coming up. And so, you know, like a lot of people in our twenties, right. I experienced Christian counseling, um, good old cognitive behavioral therapy and scripture. 

And I got a little healthier in my head. Um, but there was that nagging in the background. There has to be more. I just, know, you just kind of, even in your 20s sense that. So then I went right into youth ministry. Um, and you know, I loved working with teens. I still do. And, um, but there was just kind of this constant nagging again of like kids making positive changes, but not having the right kind of support at home, even in loving homes. 

Um, And so I got frustrated with that, talking to the Lord about it. And then next thing I knew there was a marriage and family therapy master's program at our local seminary. And I went to an open house and felt called. So, um, that was the beginning of therapy and. You know, in one of my early practicums, I sat under a few different people. 

I got to sit under a pastor and a therapist who was practicing theophastic prayer. So I had an early imprint of what it looks like to see, uh, how a memory changes in how the body is holding that when Jesus can be seen and felt in that. And so it definitely left an imprint though. That wasn't the most welcomed testimony in grad school, unfortunately. 

Um, so I mostly learned about therapy after grad school, which is what most people say and the arts and science of, of growth and change. Um, God got my attention through several different things, uh, to kind of lean me towards. Therapy, our trauma work and therapy, um, you know, I believe strongly that we don't have to go out looking for our purpose. 

It finds us, it's inside of us, like the fire in our belly that Jeremiah is talking about. And so I just started paying attention to the fire in my belly, uh, what breaks my heart, um, in the ways that I think breaks God's heart too. And so the fire in my belly started growing, um, acutely in about 2005. I was, uh, at a Christian counseling agency, community mental health. 

And they asked for somebody to work at a correctional facility just one day a week. And I said, pick me, pick me. And, um, I proceeded to work with adolescent girls in a therapeutic program at a correctional facility at the same time that I learned, uh, dialectical behavior therapy, um, good, solid coping skills done worldwide. 

Um, and then at the same time, I went to my first trauma workshop. I didn't even know this guy really, Kolk back in 05, but I went and I shot my hand up in the middle of 500 healers and asked about the place of coping skills, in this case, DBT skills, uh, in the larger story of trauma. And, uh, he basically said, well, it assumes that someone's. 

Having skills like that be integrated assumes that someone's front brain is online and mostly it's not. And so I felt something in my body then that I paid attention to and the fire really grew that, um, I wanted to be part of, um, the minority of therapists who could help people get their front brain online. 

And so I read The Body Keeps the Score and... I started seeing that the way I had experienced healing, uh, in the church and elsewhere was more putting the cart before the horse, um, trying to do coping strategies without even being online. So, um, the shorter story then is rapid from there into trauma. I had a woman talking about sexual trauma one day and She came back the next week and I said, how was your week? 

And she said, well, I actually barfed in the parking lot when I left here. And, um, I just sort of realized in that moment in a strong way that, um, you know, traditional therapy had been teaching me and many therapists get people to talk about their trauma, but she did not have the capacity for that. And. It was kind of a hard stop for me, like in my body, it was like, this is unrighteousness and that's it. 

You know, I had been referring people out for EMDR or trauma work. And I said to her, well, I can refer you to somebody so that you don't barf when you leave here. Um, I might not do trauma training for awhile. And she's like, no, I'll stay and wait. And so I just said, okay, Lord, I mean, we have a connection, this client and I, and it's time. 

So then I dove into EMDR training. And just quickly then it became a quick path to a manual prayer. I'll just say a couple of quick things about that. Um, you know, I started learning in EMDR training and then advanced trainings about attachments. This isn't just a brain issue, which is all I had been hearing about. 

Um, but it's a nervous system issue. And. Started understanding pre verbal trauma and how the body holds every life experience. So when I started doing more in depth training on attachment is when I felt like the scales fell off my eyes, to be quite honest. Um, I, I had a visceral body reaction, like, why wasn't I taught this stuff in grad school? 

This is just not right, you know, and, um. And within the kingdom, we have people that kind of simplify all this, this stuff. Um, the life model people, you know, they'll call it type A trauma, A for absence of needs getting met and type B trauma, the bad things that happen. And so I started realizing like this type A. 

Absinthe wound stuff, attachment wound, this is  

[00:08:06] Geoff: So true.  

[00:08:07] Stephanie Rossing: And so, so then I started doing what I called Spirit Led EMDR and it was just asking God to bring people life giving connections. And, um, that quickly led into a client going, Hey, this is like Emmanuel prayer. And I'm like, what's that? That's that. 

And so then, then I, I learned that I dove in in 2017 and, um, it turns out, right, that when we go to Jesus as the source and work with him directly, develop intimacy with him, that feels true. The truth starts feeling true. And um, it was just in 2017, just the total game changer for me to learn about Emmanuel prayer with other trauma colleagues as well. 

[00:08:48] Cyd: Wow. Yeah. 

[00:08:50] Stephanie Rossing: And that's what I felt for the first time. I don't think I heard God's audible voice, but it was, it was like that. It made me turn around in my car. I heard so loudly in my head as I left in a manual training. You're home. And I knew in my spirit what it meant. It meant you're gonna replicate this, replicate this thing. 

And I was like, okay,  

[00:09:08] Geoff: Well, I know we definitely want to get 

into what is a manual prayer, especially for those who don't know. So, um, this is a total selfish sidebar, but I just want to point out like, um, That what I heard in your story was, was what I hear in the churches too. Is that like pastors and discipleship models are often very cognitive based and, you know, talky, talk, talk leads to transformation. And I'm not, so we're not against that, right? There actually is some 

transformation. And even you said like some CBT cognitive behavioral therapy that does some short term work, it can correct some bad patterns and kind of put you on a new path. But that real deep change doesn't come. Uh, and so, but it's kind of strangely warm to hear that, like, well, therapists sometimes. 

Fall into the same traps, like, well, here's like what we know about this stuff. And if I could teach it to you, and then if we could just talk through, um, and that works for people in certain ways, but then for others, it's like. Triggering retraumatizing or just bounces off of them, you know, so, 

so I'm, I'm just saying selfishly, I'm 

glad to know that we all fall into the same traps. 

Like this is our Western kind of perspective 

that more information  

[00:10:17] Stephanie Rossing: That's right. 

[00:10:18] Geoff: people, but the trauma work and others is basically saying, like, actually it changes some people some of the time, but oftentimes not so much. Okay. So that was my little side. So did you have any questions about some 

of that, the backstory? Otherwise we could jump right into a little bit of that. What is 

[00:10:33] Cyd: No, just so much of your story resonates and just the way that, um, you know, I just love, I love the journey that you were on and the way that, you know, there were like pieces of it that came and came and then sort of Emmanuel prayer was sort of that last piece that sort of brought it all together. Um, and I just. Yeah, I just, you know, I just keep thinking all the time of like, you know, because I, so as a coach and a spiritual director, like people will often ask me, like, do you coach people who aren't believers? And I'll say, well, sure. I'm open to coaching people who aren't believers, but ultimately the greatest, like. 

Deepest best work is always going to be done in partnership with Jesus. So I can coach people who aren't believers, but I'm, I'm always going to be asking like questions that are toward the direction of, of, is there a spiritual presence in your life? Because I've just seen that the work that we do together with Jesus has the kind of impact that can happen in a 10 minute. piece of a conversation that could otherwise take months, if not years, or if 

ever. And so 

just the way that, I mean, Jesus is concise, he's efficient, he's 

deliberate and so loving, and the change lasts. Like, 

so I just love that you were like the way that all your pieces came together. Mine came in the reverse order. 

It was a manual prayer first, and then all the Uh, like embodiment, somatic stuff and coaching and all that stuff. So it's like I was building 

on Emmanuel prayer and then going from there and you were going sort of the other direction. So I just, it's just really fun to hear the story in reverse almost. 

[00:12:17] Geoff: for the listeners or for people who will just pretend, have no idea what manual prayer is so could, uh, I don't know, to sit 

or or do you, you want to like Stephanie, like explain, I, yeah, I will just let Stephanie do it because I know you've both been trained and whatnot. So if you, for, for people who 

don't know, uh, could you just give like an overview of like, what is a manual prayer? 

How does it work? What are we talking about here? Um, um, um. Um, 

[00:12:46] Stephanie Rossing: it's, it's pretty cool. There's nothing new under the sun. Right. So Emmanuel Prayer is, um, unique in two ways from other prayer modalities and frankly other therapy modalities too. Um, the uniqueness one is that we're, we're building. uh, intimacy with God as the primary part of the healing and symptom reduction is a nice byproduct. 

Not the focal point. And then secondly, we are focusing on increasing capacity, um, through life giving connection with God and others who are glad to be with us, uh, in doing so we create life giving neural pathways that become stronger than our trauma pathways and. Uh, it's very simple for people to enter in via gratitude. 

Gratitude is the best on ramp we have to joy. Things that are life giving and life giving memory anchors. So gratitude is often how people on ramp. And I like to use the analogy of, um, having two cups. And trauma or painful wiring is, in most of us, way stronger than the life giving wiring. So that's like a bigger cup. 

And then we want to focus on building the life giving wiring and, and that. if we try to pour the trauma in to neutralize it into that life giving cup that's smaller, there's not room for it. It won't neutralize. So we have to, we get to, um, put our energy on life giving things, on things above, as the scripture says. 

And... Let that life giving capacity build, put the focus there. And then by the time we peek at the trauma, it's already been shrinking because the neural pathways that aren't getting reinforced shrink. So then when we pour the trauma in, it's, it can neutralize, it's like digesting food that those trauma or overwhelming memories metabolize. 

So that's an  

[00:14:35] Cyd: Yeah. And I think I would add to that, you know, just one thing that you mentioned of just like starting with gratitude, um, is a good way to enter in. And so for those of our listeners who've listened to us talk about polyvagal theory and the nervous system before too, that's like, it's turning on that social engagement system. 

system, which is part of the, the, the, the nice time when the parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system are working together and are integrated. And so that gratitude moment of building gratitude is turning on all that relational circuitry, that social engagement system, and bringing you to begin at a place of integration and wholeness, which already starts priming you to build that capacity and joy. Um, you know, and then along with that, I just want to say for those of you that are like, Oh, this. This is strange. Where is this even coming from? And, um, I just want to say it's all kind of based on the idea and the reality that, you know, at the bookends of the gospel of Matthew, we see that his name will be called Emmanuel, God with us. And at the end of the book, when Jesus is. commissioning his disciples and ascending into heaven. He says, I will be with you always to the end. And so it's that idea that Jesus is always with us. He's true to his word. He keeps his promises. And so that means that Jesus was with us even in our traumas. Um, but we don't. Find him there. Usually we don't remember him being there and we can't change what happened to us, but we can change how we carry it and how we remember it and how we hold it. And so, you know, when you said, you know, when we pour the trauma in, we're waiting until Jesus takes us there anyway. Um, but then when the trauma is visited, it's, it's re narrating and changing the whole experience because Jesus is showing how he was with the person who suffered as the trauma was happening. 

And so that changes the whole narrative because you're with someone who was glad to be with you and who was basically suffering with you as you were suffering, um, which then changes everything about the way that that trauma is held. In the body. 

[00:16:42] Stephanie Rossing: And for me as a trauma therapist, kind of trained to the end of the trauma continuum with complex developmental trauma, um, neuro dissociation, it was a big concern for myself and my colleagues upon learning about the Emanuel approach to make sure that people wouldn't get re  


[00:16:59] Cyd: Yeah.  

[00:16:59] Stephanie Rossing: Um, that's of course what unintentionally happens in a lot of, uh, prayer counseling or even, um, cognitive therapy because we don't have that  

[00:17:08] Cyd: Right.  

[00:17:08] Stephanie Rossing: that's high enough. 

So it's, it's the goodness of God that we get to focus on, you know, the life giving stuff, getting strengthened, strengthened, strengthened, and meeting him in that, feeling his withness with us. Um, and. You know, it does turn out that, you know, that is Jesus is perfect love and perfect safety. So connection with him is it's just exceedingly more exceedingly and abundantly more than all we can dare to ask or imagine. 


[00:17:37] Cyd: Amen. Yeah.  

[00:17:38] Stephanie Rossing: um, people are used to amazing results with any trauma modalities, but. Jesus, um, moves in so swiftly, so personally, and gives us things that we can stand tall in, um, and we feel safety and the body gets rewired in that. So it's, it's been wonderful to see it hold up, even with some of my clients who are recovering from heinous lifetime traumas, satanic ritual abuse. 

all the things that are the  

[00:18:05] Cyd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And even just like, so my own story of Emmanuel prayer was that I, there was a specific thing that I wanted to work through when I learned about Emmanuel prayer. And so I was seeing someone, you know, one on one, I was seeing her every week for a while. Jeff, what was that? Like a total of six months or something? 

I don't remember. Anyway, and I was so sure exactly where I needed to go. And so every time I was like, I had an agenda, I was like, this is where I want to go, Jesus. Like let's go there, show it to me. Let's deal with it. And he never, no, it was like, he knew good and well that I did not have the capacity for it. 

He knew I couldn't go there. He knew I couldn't handle it. And so even though I was dying to get to it and work it through and fix it, right, get it over with. Um, it was like, no, we're dodging that. We're going to go here instead. Nope. We're going to this. And I kept going like, why this memory? This is such a tame memory. 

Like, what does this have to do with anything? And he just kept showing me like building that capacity, building that intimacy. And now that I know what I know about attachment, what he was doing was he was securing attachment. Letting me feel safe and in like, knowing that he was with me in a way that I had never encountered him before. 

He played hide and seek with me once where I was just like, what is this about? This is not getting to the trauma, but at the same time, just that like, Oh, like you're willing to like, play with me. Like, what kind of God is willing to play with me? Like that's amazing. And so that course of like, you know, and then six months later we finally get to the trauma I was after the whole time and it, it lost, there was no trauma there anymore. And you know, on reflecting on that at first I was just like, that's like, it took so long to get there. But then when I talked to people who've been working through their trauma for years, I'm like, Oh my goodness, he did that in six months. That's, that's. Incredible. 

[00:20:07] Stephanie Rossing: a similar story. Um, God is way more playful or joyful than we have been led to think. Right. And, uh, my first experience in 2017 at my first Emmanuel training, we got into triads to practice like you always do. And, um, you know, you just, you just report what's happening. You let God sift it for you and you just. 

Just, just stay aware of what's coming and trust that to God. And so, um, I got a picture of myself actually in my old counseling space. And um, I was on the, in a chair and my, I had a female client, couldn't see her face on the couch and Jesus was sitting on an Ottoman cube between us. And he was like attuning to both of us back and forth. 

And then he turned to the woman and said, excuse me, I'm, I'm fully with you, but, um, I need to attune to her because she's a piece of work. And he pointed at me and I'm like, this is my first go with this. I am just reporting. They even asked me like, what is Jesus wearing? And I'm like, just reporting it. He looks like he has his big brother's gray sweatpants on that are too big for him. 

And they're like wrinkled at the bottom, like elephant wrinkles. So I just went with it. But then. Um, one of my favorite verses is Ephesians 2 10 that we are, we are God's workmanship, you know, his masterpieces. And so I'm a little slow on the uptake quite frequently in life. And so two weeks after that training. 

I was sitting with a client and I literally gasped in the middle of the session. My client's like, what, what's wrong? What's going on? And I said, I'm so sorry. I'm paying attention. I just realized something God was speaking to me two weeks ago. And he was saying, you're my piece of  

[00:21:50] Geoff: Oh, I love it.  

[00:21:52] Cyd: yeah.  

[00:21:52] Stephanie Rossing: Cause he knows I love that  

[00:21:54] Geoff: and that's where it's like our insecure attachment strategies will take a word and find the worst in it. And you know, 

[00:22:01] Cyd: Yeah, you're a piece of work. Like, you are such a  

[00:22:03] Geoff: right. We're interpreting it through that kind of those, you know, harsh filters that we already have internalized. And meanwhile, God's trying to give us a totally different message and it's like, it takes a little while. I love that. That's so great. 

[00:22:16] Cyd: what a beautiful retelling of yeah, that's that's amazing. 

No, you can't  

[00:22:22] Stephanie Rossing: you know? And frankly, I mean, even though I've had all these other connections with him and he's kind of life giving. Anchors in my life that I meet him in regularly that one's still one of my favorites It's usually my go to because I tend to take life a little bit too seriously And I feel Jesus sort of elbowing me, you know, kind of like can you relax a little bit? 

So He loves to meet me that way. And I've heard other people talk about meeting  

[00:22:48] Cyd: Yep. Yep  

[00:22:50] Geoff: I, so I want to make one comment about the playful Jesus and then I want to kind of go back just for the both of you to fill out what is the Emmanuel experience for people who are still a little, maybe unsure. But the one thing about like playful Jesus or joyful experiences with God that like the science is showing. What you said, Stephanie, and what you are all experiencing that, like actually having those positive, joyful attachment, creating experiences are just as, or more important than having what we would call maybe safe and secure experiences. A lot of times in the trauma literature, it talks about like, well, you need people to feel safe and secure, which of course you do. Right. But it's actually, Jesus is taking us that next step of like, we're actually having playful, joyful, um, Positive emotion inducing experiences that then create that capacity that you were talking about, Stephanie, that create that capacity that then when you turn at some point to the trauma, you find that it's shrunken, that you are. Capable that you have the capacity to look at it and do what, whatever it needs to happen. And so, yeah, building up the joy. So it's not just managing distress is what I think sometimes it's like, Oh, we're, we're helping people have competency in managing distress and those are all good. Right. We need those skills. Um, but it's act to recover and whatnot, but actually increasing those positive. And that's why starting with gratitude is so important. Then 

[00:24:12] Cyd: Yeah, it's like the the joy and the connection has now become bigger than the trauma where the trauma used to be bigger Than any joy or connection you were able to make yeah 

[00:24:24] Stephanie Rossing: That's right. And I think too, the, one of the things I hear most frequently from people as they're just sitting. And I just encourage people to relax, you know, relax their body. We do all the vagus nerve stuff and we do all the breathing while they're in a manual prayer. Cause we want the body to stay online. 

And what, what I often see God doing is just bringing ease and freedom to people. And I asked him about that once when somebody was connected with Jesus. And that's, those are the words he gave me, ease and freedom. And that was years ago. And I just, I see so many people report, I feel like he just wants to hang out with me. 

And they're chewing on like grass with Jesus. They're watching the clouds. Um, it's often just a being, which people resonate with, with safe people in our lives that we don't have to be talking. We can just free. Be free to be ourselves. So to see Jesus do that so consistently with people, it is that shalom, you know, that um, roots and  

[00:25:20] Cyd: Yeah, I so often have Jesus like saying to people, just rest with me, right? 

Just rest with me. Or, you know, so often just saying, I love you, which is like, you know, we all know Jesus loves us. But when people are intimately connected with him and he says it to them personally in the moment. I know when I, when he has said it to me like that too, it's just like all of a sudden it hits in a way that it just never can. 

When all you're doing is like remembering Jesus loves me, the Bible tells me so, but it's different when you're having an actual encounter, a relational encounter with Jesus and he tells you then. I love you. When you're in a place of rest and a place of just being together. And that has just, I mean, I think, I don't know if I've ever had somebody to say, he's just telling me that he loves me without crying. It just, even, even really closed off, hardly ever emotional people when they say, Jesus is just telling me he loves me. That's just. Yeah. 

[00:26:30] Stephanie Rossing: I got to watch the founder of Emanuel Prayer, um, Carl Lehman. He's a, um, he's an EMDR trained psychiatrist. in the kingdom. And I got to watch him for five days, lead people in a manual prayer. And it was so life giving because he was just so free and asking questions, but sometimes he wasn't tracking with where the person was with Jesus. 

And then he'd just redirect, but, um, you know, he, he just gave such freedom there. And, um, um, I forgot exactly what I was going to say about that, but. In any case, um, watching, watching the freedom and just watching, watching what God is doing. We could never predict it. He is full of surprises and we might think we kind of know where he's going sometimes, but he will take the right route to get there. 

And uh, it's just a gift to see, uh, the freedom that we can have and just sitting back and watching God. 

[00:27:23] Cyd: Yeah. And for our listeners, we do have a podcast with Carl Lehman, so maybe we can put that in the show notes too, if you'd like to hear more from him. 

[00:27:30] Geoff: it's all about how trauma invades the present and how we can, uh, what we can do about it. So that'll be in the 

show notes. Um, that's just, that's so great. So, so along with the Emmanuel prayer, um, Stephanie, you were, you also talk about like attachments, uh, and how that's kind of like the foundation of like healing and as well as like the gateway to community. 

Can you talk a little bit more about like how, what you're thinking about that or how you've experienced that in your practice or personal life? Pfft. 

[00:28:01] Stephanie Rossing: Absolutely. Um, well. Like I said earlier, attachment, learning about attachments changed my life. I mean, that was really just like all these hidden things that I was like, where's the root? Where's the root? Ah, okay. Um, so the transformation that I see, and I have so many stories, so hopefully we can sprinkle a few more of those in, but, um, you know, like the new Testament talks about agape love, but back in the old Testament, the Hebrew scriptures, right, we see this word hesed, hesed, uh, which means attachment love. 

And this kind of love transforms us in those deep foundational places. So, um, like I mentioned, the type a wounding of the life model community, a for absence of needs getting met, um, as a therapist and talking with colleagues, I mean, when we get to attachment issues, it's like, All the other healing we've done or other truths that we've internalized start to land because we have this new foundation that's not full of all these cracks anymore. 

So attachment healing changes everything. And, um, you know, the hard stuff that we go through, the good stuff that we experience, all of our body experiences are held in the body. So we need to get the healing in, in sensory ways. And that's. Um, you know, one thing that, um, Emmanuel prayer is very, very efficient with, you know, because we can do that with other trauma modalities, but what God speaks and what, and he makes the truth feel true. 

Oh, that's what I was gonna say about layman earlier is that he'll ask people, does the truth feel true there yet? Or is there any hesitation? And if it doesn't feel true, we just. Offer that right back to Jesus and he knows how to remove those blockages. So I have heard so many people comment about that. 

It's like, you know what? He didn't want to leave me with the truth feeling 80 percent true or 85 percent true. He knew how to move that. So we don't need to be afraid. And there's no happy clappy as I've heard you guys talk about. It's just like that doesn't feel true yet, God. And then we just bring it to him and he, he wants the  

[00:30:09] Cyd: right,  

[00:30:10] Stephanie Rossing: So attachment healing really does that. And, um, Also, Lehman and Wilder both thought that there was one kind of attachment healing that wasn't possible and that would be infant attachment. And, um, it's been years ago now, but Carl Lehman got to call Jim Wilder one day and say, it happened. It's happening. 

And so, um, I've, I've also been able to enter into those spaces and that's probably the deepest joy of my life is coming around people, having them bring an attachment figure into a session to put their arms around them, um, just hold them, maybe hum. Nursery songs or Bible songs over them. The body feels attached and then it's like God's love can just pour in. 

Like those love receptors are open. So I love doing attachment work in  

[00:31:00] Cyd: Wow.  

[00:31:01] Stephanie Rossing: with people in community. 

[00:31:03] Geoff: I love that. That's where, you know, to speak like the church idioms, you know, a lot of times we're like, Oh, that's just head knowledge. How do I make it heart knowledge? And I think a lot of times we just leave it up to like, it's a mystery of life. Like at some point, somehow this head knowledge of Jesus loves me becomes heart knowledge. 

It's like what I'm learning and what you're kind of saying, it's actually. Certainly it's a mystery of grace, but you know, if you work on your attachment and you connect to your body, like there are ways to help that head knowledge become heart knowledge, where it feels true, the truth feels true and you feel felt and all these different types of things. 

Um, I, I just love that. 

[00:31:42] Cyd: a good point. I think there is a lot of like, you know, I've fallen into that too. I think that at times, right, there's like that almost hopelessness of like, what's up here is never actually going to get down here. Like it does kind of, and for those of you that are just listening, I was just pointing to my head, whatever is in my head with the thoughts that I have, the, 

[00:31:59] Geoff: also. 

[00:32:00] Cyd: The things that I know and understand about God and about the way that God made the world and about myself, they're just never going to penetrate to my heart. 

And so it's always going to be a battle and I'm always just going to have to fight for what I know to be true. Um, but that's absolutely not the case. Like there really can be. Um, we really can experience the things that we know to be true also when we really work through our attachment pain and our attachment wounding and, and that, you know, the things that we know can actually become things that we also feel and experience and know in a bodily embodied kind of way. Um, so I just find that there's so much hopefulness in this kind of work 

[00:32:44] Stephanie Rossing: So much, you know, people talk about having their elevator testimony, you know, and I feel like I just give like a two minute neurology talk about God's design for healing and perfect strangers are like, that's the best news I've ever  

[00:32:57] Geoff: Are you going to give that to us right now? We got two more minutes.  

[00:33:00] Stephanie Rossing: God's design. Well, I could, you want me to, it's a lot about stuff you guys have already talked about, like the fire and wire and how God designed us to rewire  

[00:33:09] Geoff: for connection.  

[00:33:10] Cyd: can be Literally, transformed by the renewing of our minds. Yes.  

[00:33:14] Stephanie Rossing: literally restored in the body. 

So that dawned on me one day, like, duh, you know, but I want to say just lastly about like, um, some of the important pieces about community, uh, the importance of our community with attachments. Um, I think the life model resource people are doing just a great job with this. Um, With like simplifying the language about how the brain and the nervous system work and, um, really just teaching us that there's an area of our brain, uh, where we come to know our true identity, our, our God design. 

And we cannot even do that on our own. We can only see ourselves fully and accurately as other people reflect me back to me. And so that's, that's speaking of identity. So it's like this. two sides of a coin with attachment healing, right? We're, we're connecting with God and he's bringing us safety, but we're also embedded in community with people who see us like God sees us, see our true identity and we can't get there without people. 

So it's, it's really, really wonderful to. Start finding practical ways, which is really where I'm moving with writing and equipping is, is helping people develop community that can function like this and not be scared off by life's traumas and  

[00:34:32] Cyd: Yeah. Yeah. I always say to people, you didn't get these attachment wounds by yourself, and they're not going to be fully healed by yourself. 

[00:34:40] Geoff: It's so true. 

[00:34:41] Cyd: Yeah. 

[00:34:42] Geoff: Well, the last thing you're kind of working on, um, Doing the simplification, offering resources. I think you're, you're dreaming, you're making like teachings around like body honoring kind of theology or being like whole bodied image bearers of God. Do you have any like in progress reports of things that you're really excited or at least trying to churn out? 

Yeah. Hmm. 

[00:35:06] Stephanie Rossing: I sure do. 

[00:35:06] Geoff: Hmm. 

[00:35:08] Stephanie Rossing: I get so excited about this stuff because it's radically changes. There is actual transformation. That's not hard for people to access, not hard for people to get traction. And so, um, you know, I love a lot. I'm just so thankful for the embodied faith podcast, you guys, because you're constantly, I think I've heard all the episodes and you're constantly bringing people on who are talking about the importance of body honoring theology and practices. 

Um, and so. You know, somebody like Beth Felker Jones, you had her on, I just loved what she had to say about understanding where Paul is talking about, you know, the old body and the new that it's, it's the material body is the same. We all live in a material body. We, you know, God meets us in the material body. 

The difference is whether it's directed by the selfish will or by the Holy spirit. And so I think just in general, it's so freeing for people to Have revised healthier theology. Um, Western culture has gotten it upside down and backwards in the, in that sense. We focus on left brain logic and also top brain, but we don't start there. 

God's design is that all of our life experiences come in through the brainstem on the right side, through the attachment brain. Am I safe? Am I seen? Am I connected? Then it can transfer over to the left brain. And so, you know. Even some of the churches still just so much of the teaching is about left brain learning. 

And so we can expand it. We need to expand it into whole brain, which is what the life model people are doing so well. Um, but we know as embodied healers that it really is a whole body thing. Cause 80 percent of the neurons in our body are going from the body to the brain. And only 20 percent are going from the brain to the body. 

So if the church can learn these simple things, we will just teach things and embody things so much more effectively. And that's what I'm passionate about doing is bringing practical tools for free. Two  

[00:37:12] Cyd: That's, yeah. Fantastic.  

[00:37:13] Geoff: It's, not for nothing that John says, and the word became flesh and dwelt among us, right? That's the only way we could finally get it that God loved us. Uh, so important. Well, thank you so much for the work you're doing and, and the 

resource. And when you get all This stuff, you know, uh, already, then we'll just have you on again and we'll just kind of share joy again, hopefully. 

So that'd be great. Where can people, you know, 

[00:37:39] Stephanie Rossing: sounds wonderful. 

[00:37:40] Geoff: or connect with you. I don't know if there's a way to do that or, you know, or it's, yeah. 

[00:37:45] Stephanie Rossing: Sure. Yeah. I am just kind of exploring some new things. And so social media is in construction, but, um, I can be reached at my website, which is core restore counseling and it's email Stephanie at core restore counseling. com. Uh, Steph Rossing on Instagram and, uh, we'll have some other new things emerging, but, um, right now I'm just really focusing on, um, getting the stuff out there and simple practical ways. 

And then as we see it effective and working, then hoping to write some books and resources around what's working. Yeah. Thanks for you having me. I am just overjoyed to be in this space with you  

[00:38:28] Cyd: Yeah. It's been great to spend some time with you. Yeah. And these are going to be some fun show notes. There's going to be a lot in these show notes. 

[00:38:35] Geoff: So for, for you, 

uh, listeners, thank you so much for listening, please subscribe, please share this with people, you know, who feel like, you know, they could just use a little hope and joy about how Jesus can work in the midst of trauma and just need to hear life changes in that way. So 

please share that around your, uh, you listeners are, are only publicists, right? 

So please share that. Um, and thanks again, uh, Stephanie for, for being on, we really appreciate it. 

[00:38:59] Stephanie Rossing: Thank you so much. And I'd love to share more stories another time.  

Thanks for watching and till next time!